Risque of using MS DE 2000 and Windows Vista

[Tony]

Hi,

1.

I just received a piece of retail administrative software for review that
uses MSDE 2000 database engine. Installation om part of of the SQL Server
2000 Desktop Engine on Vista Ultimate took 1 hour and 8 minutes.

What went wrong???



2.

The retail box of the software mentions Vista under ,,System requirements'',
but XP is ,,Recommended''.



Is there a risk in using the MS DE 2000 data engine under Windows Vista? It
is still ,,supported'' by Microsoft for Windows XP, where the Microsoft web
site says it is unsupported for Vista!



3. The MSDE 2000 database is ready for syncronisation on install of the
administrative software. I'd say that is putting it open to the world. Is
there any way to prevent is from doing that?



Kind regards,

Tony Thijs

Oriolus Publishing

[Andrea Montanari]

hi Tony,

Post by Tony
The retail box of the software mentions Vista under ,,System
requirements'', but XP is ,,Recommended''.
Is there a risk in using the MS DE 2000 data engine under Windows
Vista? It is still ,,supported'' by Microsoft for Windows XP, where
the Microsoft web site says it is unsupported for Vista!

MSDE as SQL Server 2000 as well, are not supported on Vista.. you can
eventually install them on Vista and get them succesfully working, but
Microsoft will not support that scenario... if you get in trouble, you can
not call the PSS for help (even if paying for it) and you'll be non your
own..
as regard the 2000 codebase, usually Microsoft supports the current (SQL
Server 2008) and the preceding last version (2005) of their products.. in
this case I do think Microsoft will continue supporting the 2000 code base
for a while, but this is just my opinion..

Post by Tony
3. The MSDE 2000 database is ready for syncronisation on install of
the administrative software. I'd say that is putting it open to the
world. Is there any way to prevent is from doing that?

sorry, did not understand your question..

[Tony]

Hi Andrea,
Thanks for your comment. I
n the meanwhile I spotted a Microsoft site stating that ,,mainstream
support'' ended for SQL 2000 on august 4 2008. Extended supprot is still
available. That will probably mean very expensive MS support.

The ISV
I wondered about the ISV that bundeled the MSDE with their software. They
are still saying that Vista is one of the required platforms for their
software and we -in Holland- can still buy that software ,,of the shelf''.
Apparently there is no way Microsot can prevent people to sell retired
software.

<<ready for syncronisation>>
MSDE starts listening on port 1433 and I get a messagebox stating that sql
server is ready for synchronization. I hoped you knew about a startup
parameter that prevents that. I am working stand alone.
Kind regards,
Tony Thijs

Post by Andrea Montanari
hi Tony,

Post by Tony
The retail box of the software mentions Vista under ,,System
requirements'', but XP is ,,Recommended''.
Is there a risk in using the MS DE 2000 data engine under Windows
Vista? It is still ,,supported'' by Microsoft for Windows XP, where
the Microsoft web site says it is unsupported for Vista!

MSDE as SQL Server 2000 as well, are not supported on Vista.. you can
eventually install them on Vista and get them succesfully working, but
Microsoft will not support that scenario... if you get in trouble, you can
not call the PSS for help (even if paying for it) and you'll be non your
own..
as regard the 2000 codebase, usually Microsoft supports the current (SQL
Server 2008) and the preceding last version (2005) of their products.. in
this case I do think Microsoft will continue supporting the 2000 code base
for a while, but this is just my opinion..

Post by Tony
3. The MSDE 2000 database is ready for syncronisation on install of
the administrative software. I'd say that is putting it open to the
world. Is there any way to prevent is from doing that?

sorry, did not understand your question..
--
Andrea Montanari (Microsoft MVP - SQL Server)
http://www.asql.biz http://www.hotelsole.com
DbaMgr2k ver 0.21.1 - DbaMgr ver 0.65.1 and further SQL Tools
--------- remove DMO to reply

[Andrea Montanari]

hi Tony,

Post by Tony
Hi Andrea,
Thanks for your comment. I
n the meanwhile I spotted a Microsoft site stating that ,,mainstream
support'' ended for SQL 2000 on august 4 2008. Extended supprot is
still available. That will probably mean very expensive MS support.
The ISV
I wondered about the ISV that bundeled the MSDE with their software.
They are still saying that Vista is one of the required platforms for
their software and we -in Holland- can still buy that software ,,of
the shelf''. Apparently there is no way Microsot can prevent people
to sell retired software.

Microsoft released SQL Server 2005 few years ago.. that's meaning that SQL
Server 2000 (and MSDE as well) are "legacy" products.. I do personally know
lot of people selling software no longer "up to date", but they still do
it.. obviously this works as long as no problem arise with the underlying
plaform, be it the actual operating system, a particular component like DAO
and the Jet engine and the like.. I still use an accounting software
originally written in 1984 in quickbasic [meaning DOS :) ], and I will not
change it as long as I can use a dedicated Win2k box for it that still
support it...but I do know I can not claim to have Microsoft to solve any
problem about it.. BTW, I still have to find a better accounting product
than that old piece of software, but this is another story :)

Post by Tony
<<ready for syncronisation>>
MSDE starts listening on port 1433 and I get a messagebox stating
that sql server is ready for synchronization. I hoped you knew about
a startup parameter that prevents that. I am working stand alone.

by default, MSDE is usually installed disabling network protocols and
connections for security concerns.. a set of parameters can be used to
enabling them, and this could be the case in your scenario.. but MSDE never
"pops up" a dialog stating something.. this is probably related to "your"
piece of software.. you can, if you like, re-disable them, accessing the
Server Network Utility (svrnetcn.exe) and disable network protocols as local
connections can be performed over Shared Memory with no access to network
stack (you have to restart MSDE after the change to take effect).. but you
should investigate this with the ISV providing the software becouse they
could have hardcoded the use of, say, TCP/IP netlib for local connections as
well..

[Tony]

Andrea,
Thanks for the information What surprises me is that Microsoft cannot do
anything against abuse of retired products by ISV's.
<quickbasic>
In those days I teached the kid how to program in Quick basic. He is still
programming :-)
Kind regards,
Tony Thijs
Oriolus Publishing.

Post by Andrea Montanari
hi Tony,

Post by Tony
Hi Andrea,
Thanks for your comment. I
n the meanwhile I spotted a Microsoft site stating that ,,mainstream
support'' ended for SQL 2000 on august 4 2008. Extended supprot is
still available. That will probably mean very expensive MS support.
The ISV
I wondered about the ISV that bundeled the MSDE with their software.
They are still saying that Vista is one of the required platforms for
their software and we -in Holland- can still buy that software ,,of
the shelf''. Apparently there is no way Microsot can prevent people
to sell retired software.

Microsoft released SQL Server 2005 few years ago.. that's meaning that SQL
Server 2000 (and MSDE as well) are "legacy" products.. I do personally
know lot of people selling software no longer "up to date", but they still
do it.. obviously this works as long as no problem arise with the
underlying plaform, be it the actual operating system, a particular
component like DAO and the Jet engine and the like.. I still use an
accounting software originally written in 1984 in quickbasic [meaning DOS
:) ], and I will not change it as long as I can use a dedicated Win2k box
for it that still support it...but I do know I can not claim to have
Microsoft to solve any problem about it.. BTW, I still have to find a
better accounting product than that old piece of software, but this is
another story :)

Post by Tony
<<ready for syncronisation>>
MSDE starts listening on port 1433 and I get a messagebox stating
that sql server is ready for synchronization. I hoped you knew about
a startup parameter that prevents that. I am working stand alone.

by default, MSDE is usually installed disabling network protocols and
connections for security concerns.. a set of parameters can be used to
enabling them, and this could be the case in your scenario.. but MSDE
never "pops up" a dialog stating something.. this is probably related to
"your" piece of software.. you can, if you like, re-disable them,
accessing the Server Network Utility (svrnetcn.exe) and disable network
protocols as local connections can be performed over Shared Memory with no
access to network stack (you have to restart MSDE after the change to take
effect).. but you should investigate this with the ISV providing the
software becouse they could have hardcoded the use of, say, TCP/IP netlib
for local connections as well..
--
Andrea Montanari (Microsoft MVP - SQL Server)
http://www.asql.biz http://www.hotelsole.com
DbaMgr2k ver 0.21.1 - DbaMgr ver 0.65.1 and further SQL Tools
--------- remove DMO to reply

[Andrea Montanari]

hi Tony,

Post by Tony
Andrea,
Thanks for the information What surprises me is that Microsoft cannot
do anything against abuse of retired products by ISV's.

it's not an "abuse"...
as long as someone is licensed and the "software" is somehow available, this
person is entitled for redistribution..
MSDE can be directly bundled in application deployment by ISV, and this is
the reason it's still "available".. perhaps not supported, but available :)

[Tony]

Hi Andrea,
Thanks for the information. Here in Holland we have rather strict rules
about product support. Suppliers are not limited to warranty supprt. Even
after the warrenty expires they have to chip in and support mission critical
problems. All within reasonable margins. For example if your washing machine
breaks down completely one day after the warranty expires they still have to
help you.

That would mean that, if and when a product is not supported anymore by
Microsoft, the supplier of the bundeled (MSDE) component automatically is
responsible for support of the retired MSDE engine they bundeled with their
application. It is not some thing they will like to hear, but that's the law
in Holland which by EU enforcement will spread to the rest of the EU.
Kind regards,
Tony Thijs
Oriolus Publishing

Post by Andrea Montanari
hi Tony,

Post by Tony
Andrea,
Thanks for the information What surprises me is that Microsoft cannot
do anything against abuse of retired products by ISV's.

it's not an "abuse"...
as long as someone is licensed and the "software" is somehow available,
this person is entitled for redistribution..
MSDE can be directly bundled in application deployment by ISV, and this is
the reason it's still "available".. perhaps not supported, but available :)
--
Andrea Montanari (Microsoft MVP - SQL Server)
http://www.asql.biz http://www.hotelsole.com
DbaMgr2k ver 0.21.1 - DbaMgr ver 0.65.1 and further SQL Tools
--------- remove DMO to reply

[Andrea Montanari]

hi Tony,

like to hear, but that's the law in Holland which by EU enforcement
will spread to the rest of the EU.

I'm not that sure your last phrase is totally correct.. I'm not a lawyer
(and all this is becoming OT), but I do think there must be a "local"
enforcement to agree with UE directives... I do personally not recall a
similar right here in italy.. if my washmachine is "broken" and the warranty
expired yesterday, I can only "pay" for support..